Worshipping Idols

Someone posted the following message:

i am a christan. and i was wondering.
I have been reading my bible alot lately and i have come across this passage which seems confusing.

what is meant by the idea of worshiping "Idols" ???
and how does it pertain what we do today

please some explain to me what this means .....



Here is my reply:

By definition, "idol" means a representation or symbol of an object of worship

Whatever you worship is an idol.

This leads to the question: "what is worship?"

The word worship has two roots

weorth (worth) + scipe

worship means giving "worth" to someone or some thing.

In essence, the first commandment

"You shall have no other gods before me"

and the second commandment

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments

are really the same commandment.

How does it apply today?

It applies everywhere. Every time you make a decision, you have to place priorities on all your options. Whatever you place as a higher priority than God you are placing greater worth than God, i.e., giving greater worship than to God: making he/she/it an idol.

If one decides that "going to a football game" is more important than worshiping God, then it is for that person an idol. If one makes budgetary decisions in which God does not get the "first fruit", then whatever came before God is an idol.

If one truly want to know if one is worshiping idols, all one has to do is list all his/her resources (time, money, energy, position, opportunities, etc.) and evaluate how one is using those resources. Did God come first?

For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

Matthew 11:28-30
28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."


Someone in one of the Christian forums posted that although these are the true words of our Lord and Savior -- so why are many of us having a difficult time? He suggested two problems.

1. Where many people struggle with their faith-walk is in the area of sacrifice. While talking may be easy, the possibility of ridicule (sacrifice) is painful. Going on a mission trip is easy, but the cost is, well costly.
   If you're struggling with sacrifice there's a good chance your real problem is selfishness.


2. Perhaps you've been barking up the wrong tree. You might be an a great singer, for example, but if God hasn't called you into a musical ministry then your efforts may be burdensome.

Here is my response:

Matthew 11:30 follows Jesus' very long teaching session in Matthew 6 which includes the following set of verses:

Matthew 6:19-21
19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 6:24-33
24 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
25 "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?
26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
27 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
28 "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.
29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.
30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
31 So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'
32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.


In this very long teaching session, Jesus laid out the qualification for his promises. If you do this... I promise you this... "all these things will be given to you as well".

An easy yoke and light burden is the result of "all these things will be given to you as well". You don't have to labor, claw, or cheat to get "all these things"; "all these things will be given to you"; thus, "My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

To do so, our hearts must be in heaven and not on earth. Thus, our treasures must be in heaven and not on earth, "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also"

Both of the things, that the original forum post mentioned, are struggles with giving up treasures on earth. I think we can all identify more treasures on earth, e.g., a treasure on earth may be a relationship:

Matthew 8:19-22
19 Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, "Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go."
20 Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."
21 Another disciple said to him, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father."
22 But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead."

It is understood that this disciple's father did not suddenly died and needed to be buried. He is asking that he be allowed to wait until his father die, to respect his father while his father is alive.


But there is an aspect that the original forum post did not address; an aspect that does not deal with treasures on earth. When we become a disciple of Jesus Christ, there will be growing pains.

John 16:19
19 Jesus saw that they wanted to ask him about this, so he said to them, "Are you asking one another what I meant when I said, 'In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me'?
20 I tell you the truth, you will weep and mourn while the world rejoices. You will grieve, but your grief will turn to joy.
21 A woman giving birth to a child has pain because her time has come; but when her baby is born she forgets the anguish because of her joy that a child is born into the world.
22 So with you: Now is your time of grief, but I will see you again and you will rejoice, and no one will take away your joy.

Currently, we are living in a time when there's a conflict between two kingdoms (God's and Satan's). A product of this conflict (any conflict) is pain. e.g., See the Book of Job.

Unfortunately, we often confuse "having pain" with "not having an easy yoke and not having a light burden". Pain and burden are two different things.

Here's an illustration:

A soldier is seriously injured during a battle and can not move his legs. He is in pain. His buddy carries him out of the battle zone to the evacuation area so that the soldier can be transported to the MASH unit. The burden is on his buddy's back. Likewise, we may have pain, but the burden is on Jesus' back.

Christianity and the Psychology of Utilitarianism and the Biology of Moral

Until recently, research in cognitive studies have been based on the assumption that morals are learned behavior. Through positive and negative re-enforcement, decision making is reduced to a utilitarian process: What works within the context of the community is good, what doesn't work within the context of the community is bad.

One can see church teaching influenced by this utilitarian perspective, tying Christian doctrine to behavior that works within the context of the community.

I am not disputing the assertion that Christian doctrine promotes behavior that works within the context of the community.

However, I object to what is identified as the cause and what is identified as the effect.

Instead of community living being the origin of moral, the Bible clearly identifies God's moral as the origin of human creation.

According to Genesis, God created man in his own image, to be like Him, to have His nature. God wired into mankind His own moral values.

In fact, all of creation is designed to display God's moral.

Romans 1:18-20
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

His divine nature is not only seen but also understood from what has been made.

Recently, studies by Marc Hauser, a professor of Biological Anthropology at Harvard University, point to the biologically hardwired nature of morals.

In his studies, subjects were given the following scenario:

A trolley looses its brakes and is rolling out of control down a hill. It is about to hit five people who can not get out of the way. Between the trolley and the five people is a track switch. If the trolley is switched to the alternate track, it would hit only one person. Is it acceptable to switch the track so that the trolley hits only one person? Almost everyone answer the question with "yes". Hitting one person is better than hitting five.

Then, the subjects were given a new scenario:

There is no switch between the trolley and the five people. However, there is a person large enough to stop the trolley if pushed in front of the trolley. Is it acceptable to push the large person in front of the trolley to save the five people? Almost everyone answered the question "no".

The results were consistent with people of varying religious belief, culture, ethnicity, age group, and social-economic class.

Occasionally, someone may answer yes for both. However, when dug deeper, the results are consistent with the norm.

e.g., Hauser's father is a medical doctor who is a stoic thinker. His initial response was yes for both since both scenarios resulted in saving five lives instead of one. So Hauser posed a scenario closer to home (in this case closer to work).

You have five patients who are in need of organ transplants but was unable to find matching donors. A healthy person with perfect match for all five patients. Would you sacrifice the life of the healthy donor to save the lives of the five?

His answer is, "Of course, not!"

Then, how can you push the large person in front of the trolley to save the five?

With that, Hauser's father changes his position.

This result proves that moral is not based on a purely utilitarian decision. Both switching the track and pushing the large person would result in sacrificing one life for five lives. Yet, one is acceptable while the other is not.

Moral decision making is not only not a purely utilitarian decision, it is not a purely Pavlovian learned behavior which is positively or negatively re-enforced.

In fact, when asked why the first is acceptable while the second is not, no one can give an answer. Part of moral decision making is biologically hardwired.

Another example of non-utilitarian response is the test of the self interest economy.

According to Adam Smith's "Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations", in a free market economy, the self interests of all traders would dictate the distribution of all resources.

In Professor Hauser's studies, subjects were given the roles of donor or recipient. Each donor was given a sum of money, out of which he or she must offer a portion to a recipient. The recipient can accept or reject the offer. If the recipient rejects the offer, the donor and the recipient would loose the entire sum.

If the market is driven by self-interest, all recipients would accept any offer greater than zero since the rejection would result in one not receiving anything; something is better than nothing.

The research, however, shows that unless the sum is greater than or equal to what the recipient considers is a fair distribution, the recipient would reject the offer. He or she would rather get nothing than to allow an unfair distribution to take place.

Once again, the decision is not based on an utilitarian response but on a built in sense of fairness.

Hauser found another departure from the traditional assumptions of cognitive studies. Until Hauser's studies, it was believe that we choose what we think is right. If we choose incorrectly, it is because we think incorrectly.

This assumption is counter to Biblical teaching.

Romans 7:15
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

Paul understands what is right and what is wrong. Yet, he confesses that his behavior does not reflect what he think is right.

Hauser's research agrees with Paul's experience. Many subjects are able to determine what is right and what is wrong (according to the hardwired responses). Yet, what the subject chooses to do may be different from what they think is morally right. Hauser concluded that determination of what is morally right and deciding what to do are two different processes that contribute to the decision making process.

Hauser was able to confirm this theory using brain imaging. He found two active regions in the brain when performing moral decision making. One region is the region associated with emotional response. The second is the one associated with computational processes.

By comparing the brain activities of "normal" subject with those of psychopaths, he found variations in the activities in the region associated with emotional responses. While the psychopaths have similar activates in the region associated with computational processes (utilitarian response), they lack the emotional brake which prevents them from doing what is morally wrong.

These findings mesh with Christian doctrinal teaching. Simply teaching what is right and what is wrong is not going to transform a person. The problem is not with one's computational decision making processes. The problem is with the emotional response. The problem is with where one's heart lies. This, only Christ can fix.

Responses to my "When should the church worship corporately?"

Most of the responses to my original post has been along the line of the following:

we exited the age of the law, now we can still keep the law if we choose to, but that is not what saves a person, in fact if you keep the law as it is written you would never get to heaven. the only way to heaven is by being a christian.

Here is my response:

Your theology is not quite right. If we are able to keep all the laws (given or otherwise) if we do not sin, we would be able to get to heaven. The rub is that we are NOT able to keep the law (given or otherwise) NOT avoid sinning. That's why we need grace.

You would have been correct if you had said, "Trying to keep the law would not save a person." because it is impossible to keep the Law.

The second problem is your statement "we can still keep the law if we choose to". It would imply that we can choose ignore the law. If so, then we can choose not to honor our parents or not to abstain from bearing false witness, or from theft, or adultery, or from committing murder, etc.

Just because we are forgiven for our sin does not mean that we should not longer attempt to avoid sin.

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

The caveat is that there are two types of law. One is universal (apply to everyone at all time). The other type is given only to the Jews to be apply in the period before Christ.

e.g., honoring our parents and abstain from bearing false witness, and from theft, and adultery, and from committing murder are part of the universal part of the law.

e.g., the dietary laws the ceremonial laws are given only to the Jews to be apply in the period before Christ.

So which type is the keeping of the Sabbath? Since God gave the example of resting on the seventh day before there were Jewish people much less the giving of the law to the Jewish people, we can argue that it is universal.


p.s., It really bother me that there are Christians out there who flat out write off "The Law" as if it no longer matters because they are now saved. I've seen it not only in responses to the Sabbath discussion but also to a plethora of Christian issues. Sure, we are not able to be sinless. Sure, we are saved from the punishment due to violators. However, "the Law" (the universally applicable part) is still the standard by which we determine if we are on the right track. We've got to heed to Paul's urging in Romans 6:1-2.

A response to my "If God exists, why does he allow bad things to happen to "good" people?"

I receive the following response to my original post:

I am not attacking you but I do have some comments about what you said...maybe we are saying the same thing two different ways...just curious

Were do we get the idea He disciplines us because we did something WRONG....teaching is done when people do things write...and its not always with blows..in Greek it is translated in a verbal or instructional method not a beating method....
Because of the system that God set up were He gave us free will to choose a blessing or a curse it allows Satan to test us....when we make a hole...like fear it gives Him access through GOD's Protection.....
Yes trials and Tribulations come and when they do we must put our faith to the test.....which matures us....but just sitting around complaining is not testing ones faith...we must fight the good fight....why is it good....cause if you don't quite you can't lose!
God did not need to tell Job, actually you can see Job figured it out for himself....realizing He opened himself up to fear...

Yes to say that would seem a bit much but sometimes actually most times that is all it is....we opened ourselves up and then the domino effect....

I like most of what your mentor says but that is not biblical...God says He is our protector.....so if we do right things He will protect us! Doesn't mean hard times won't come or bad things won't happen it just means that through and through God will brings us through the others side without the smell of smoke.....even when we stand in the fire!
What you consider faith is actually hope....Faith believes and has no uncertainty....hope is future with a bit of uncertainty...
Though there is a price to pay for doing right it there is no lack of guarantee....actually its a promise from a God who can't lie...the prevention of people doing what is right is a lack of faith, perseverance and love! Though the reward of Heaven is great so to is the reward we receive here and now....our blessings are eternal....and wants to bless us abundantly .....


Here's my reply:

Actually, we disagree on these key issues.

Hebrew 12:5-8
5 And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."
7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?
8 If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

The Lord does discipline when you do something wrong. See in verse 5, He rebukes you; i.e., He's pointing out to you what you are doing wrong.

I never associated God's discipline with "a beating". However, there may be hardship resulting from God's disciplining. There is always hardship associated with life course correction. e.g., Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh. So God caused him to be thrown overboard and swallowed up by a big fish and taken to Nineveh (not exactly a cruise on the Pacific Princess).

No, Job never knew what happened to him. In fact that's the point of the story. The Lord spent several chapters saying to Job and his friends, "You don't known what I've been up to since the creation. You don't understand the big picture." After God's tirade in those chapters, God did not reveal to Job and his friends what had been happening to Job.

Yes, God is our protector. However, there is a priority of what He is protecting:

1. our soul


2. our eternal glory


3. then, somewhere further down the list is our body

God allowed Satan to give Job boils on his skin. God didn't protect Job from that.

You got to look at the big picture. Our bodies are mortal. They will die. Their purpose is to house our souls during this very temporary period in which we (our souls, our characters) are being perfected. Once they have served their purpose, we will receive new glorified bodies.

The lack of guarantee of reward to which I was referring is the lack of guarantee of reward here and now. As you can see from my post, I believe in a guarantee of reward in heaven.

Hebrew 11:1
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

When should the church worship corporately?

Someone started a discussion thread in one of the Christian forums arguing that we, as Christians, should worship on the seventh day of the week (the Sabbath as specified in the Old Testament) and not on the first day of the week.

Here is my response.

The Lord never said that we are to worship on the Sabbath (the seventh day). The word Sabbath was transliterated from the Hebrew word meaning intermission (period between doing things, rest). The Lord commanded us to keep it holy (qadash) and not work on that day.

Exodus 20:8-11

8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy (qadash).
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

The Hebrew word in verse eight that was translated to the English phrase "keep holy" is "qadash".

Qadash simply means clean, purify, dedicate, set apart.

It does not convey any meaning which can be translated to worship.


In fact, the Lord gave us the Sabbath for our sake: so that we would have rest.

Mark 2:27
27 Then He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."


The Lord also commanded us to rest on the seventh year.

Exodus 23:10-11
10 For six years you are to sow your fields and harvest the crops,
11 but during the seventh year let the land lie unplowed and unused. Then the poor among your people may get food from it, and the wild animals may eat what they leave. Do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove.

Also, the fiftieth year (after seven seven-year cycles), the year of jubilee (battle cry), is set apart to be holy. In addition, bond servants are set free and all property are to be returned to their original owners. (Leviticus 25:8-17)


The irony is that, for most American Christians, Saturday and Sunday are the two busiest and most stressful days of week. We do most of our shopping and catch up on our household chores on Saturday. And on Sunday, we are up to our neck in church activities and after church often there's work that are due on Monday. And we certainly do not observe sabbatical year nor the jubilee year.

It is insane that we should be debating whether to be ultra-busy with church activities on Saturday or on Sunday. We need to rest!


So, when should we worship?

The example set for us by the original church is to worship every day. The original church met twice daily to worship: once in the temple courts with everyone in the church to worship corporately and once in the homes to worship in small groups.

Acts 2:46-47
46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,
47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

Allow me to summarize what the Bible tells us should do:

1. Worship corporately daily at the church building (temple).


2. Worship in small groups daily in our homes.


3. Rest on the sabbath (sun-down Friday to sun-down Saturday).


4. Celebrate the risen Christ on Sunday (not just Easter)


5. Rest on the seventh year


6. On the fiftieth year, rest, forgive debts (free bond servants - those who can't pay their debt), and return properties to their original owners.

If you really want to debate the issue, you should be debating whether we are willing to sign on the doing all of these.

p.s., I'm assuming that we no longer have to celebrate passover since it is for revealing who the Christ is and we already know who the Christ is. It's Jesus!

p.p.s., I'm also assuming that we no longer have to celebrate any of the atonement holidays since Jesus has already atone for all our sins (past, present, and future).

If God exists, why does he allow bad things to happen to "good" people?

Of all the questions asked by seekers, probably the most asked is the question:

If God exists, why does he allow bad things to happen to "good" people?

Most often, I hear Christians answer it by saying that God will discipline us when we did something wrong.

Hard times are SOMETIMES due to the Lord disciplining us because we did something wrong.

However, not ALL hard times are due to the Lord disciplining us because we did something wrong.

• Sometimes, it's because you've been faithful. For instance, Job was being faithful when the Lord singled him out to Satan. In this case, God called Job as a witness to testify that God is worthy of worship. Satan was allowed to cross examine Job. However, it was not a verbal cross examination; after all, people lie all the time. Satan was given the permission to cross examine Job's heart with those trials.


• Sometimes, we are called to be a witness to our neighbors through our hard time. Most of my friends and neighbors know that I take care of my mother who had a stroke and my brother who has numerous medical problems. Often, people would come up to me and ask how I do it. And it would be a prime opportunity for me to be a witness to testify that "I can do everything through him who gives me strength. [Philippians 4:13]"


• Sometimes, it's because God is just helping us to grow and it has nothing to do with whether we did something wrong or not. "Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. [James 1:2-4]"


• Sometimes, it's because of something going on in the spiritual realm that effects what happens here in the physical realm and we would not know until we are on the other side of eternity. For instance, God never told Job and his three friends what actually caused Job's hardship.

One final note:

One of my mentors said the following which keeps me on course when the storm hits.

If doing the right thing guarantees protection from bad stuffs and rewards of good stuffs then everybody would be doing the right thing. It is precisely the fact that there is a price to pay for doing the right thing in addition to the lack of guarantee of protection and reward that prevent many from doing the right thing. All we, who are doing the right thing, can do is to trust that the reward that we receive in heaven is much greater than the pain we suffer now. And that's why it's call faith.

Concluding My "The Woman at the Well: Scorned Sinner or Holy Woman?" Discussion

In my previous blog entry, about the woman at the well in Sychar, I was using the second definition of the word "holy": "set apart".

Someone posted the following question:

What is living holy?
How do we walk the walk according to the Word of God. Scriptures please!!!!!!!!

Here's my response.

To be holy...

• (before salvation) You must be saved: redeemed through his blood and the forgiveness of sins.
  
  Ephesians 1:3-8 [You'll find the reference to being holy in verse 4.]
  3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
  4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
  5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will
  6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
  7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of Gods grace
  8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.
  
  Ephesians 5:25-27 [You'll find the reference to being holy in verse 27.]
  25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
  26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
  27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
  
  Colossians 1:22
  22 But now he has reconciled you by Christs physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation


• (after salvation) You must abandon ignoble pursuits and pursue noble purposes which includes abandoning sexual immorality and pursuing sexual purity.
  
  2 Timothy 2:20-21 [You'll find the reference to being holy in verse 21.]
  20 In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble.
  21 If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.
  
  Romans 12:1-2 [You'll find the reference to being holy in verse 1.]
  1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God-this is your spiritual act of worship.
  2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what Gods will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will.
  
  Colossians 3:12-17 [You'll find the reference to being holy in verse 12.]
  12 Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
  13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
  14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
  15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.
  16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
  
  1 Thessalonians 3:3-5 [You'll find the reference to being holy in verse 4.]
  3 It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;
  4 that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable,
  5 not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God;

More particularly, we are created to do good works that God has predestined for us. These good work are the noble purposes and all other are ignoble purposes.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are Gods workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Although all believers will be saved from eternal damnation, there is a second judgment in which our actions are weighed and our rewards are determined.

2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds.
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each mans work.
14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

To be holy is to accept Jesus as both our SAVIOR AND LORD: get saved, do good works that God has predestined for us, and abandon all other works.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

(Digging a Little Deeper into 1 Timothy 2:11-15)

For big picture ideas, a translated Bible is sufficient for a reader to comprehend the text. However, in many cases, seeing, the nuances in the Bible, requires knowing the text in the original language.

For example, in John 21:15-19, Jesus asked Peter three times, "Do you love me?"; each time Peter answered, "You know I love you." If the reader doesn't know better, he'd think that Jesus went out of His mind. However, if you read the original Greek, you'd see that Jesus asked Peter, "Do you agape me?" And each time, Peter answered, "You know that I phileo you." Peter was not willing to commit to saying that he agape Jesus.

1 Timothy 2:11 is another instance in which one has to go to the original Greek text to get the nuances of what Paul was saying to Timothy.

So, I'd like to insert the original Greek word next to the important words in these verses.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
11 A woman (gune) should learn in quietness (hesuchia) and full submission (hupotage).
12 I do not permit (epitrepo) a woman (gune) to teach or to have authority (authenteo) over a man (aner); she must be silent (hesuchia).
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman (gune) who was deceived and became a sinner.
15 But women will be saved (the word "woman" is not in the original text only the third person singular form of saved) through childbearingif they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Here are the definition of the Greek words.

gune - a woman; specifically a wife
aner - a man (properly as an individual male):fellow, husband, man, sir.
epitrepo - turn over, give leave , give permission
hesuchios - properly keeping ones seat
hesuchia - stillness (feminine version of hesuchios)
authenteo - act of oneself, usurp authority over
hupotasso - submit self unto
hupotage - derivative of hupotasso

I made several of observations about these verses.

1. Although "gune" is translated to woman in 1 Timothy 2:11-15, in Ephesians 5:22-24, "gune" is translated to "wife"
   
   Ephesians 5:22-24
   22 Wives (gune), submit (hupotasso) to your husbands (aner) as to the Lord.
   23 For the husband (aner) is the head of the wife (gune) as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
   24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives (gune) should submit to their husbands (aner) in everything.
   
   So, while most people assume that 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is about women teaching in church, there is a possibility that the assumption is false. Paul may be talking about the wife usurping the husband's spiritual authority in the family. In fact, the bit about Adam and Eve really doesn't make much sense if it's an elderly woman teaching young men and women.


2. If we search the Bible for the Greek word "epitrepo" (permit), we'd find that the word is used only when giving permission for the immediate situation. It is never used as an imperative for all situations.
   
   Matthew 8:21
   21 Another disciple said to him, "Lord, first let (epitrepo) me go and bury my father."
   
   Matthew 8:31
   31 The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, permit (epitrepo) us to go into the herd of pigs."
   
   John 9:38
   38 Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jews. With Pilate's permission (epitrepo), he came and took the body away.
   
   1 Corinthians 16:7
   7 I do not want to see you now and make only a passing visit; I hope to spend some time with you, if the Lord permits (epitrepo).
   
   Hebrew 6:3
   3 And God permitting (epitrepo), we will do so.
   
   So, Paul was only denying permission for these particular women (or wives) to teach at that particular time. In fact, we do know that Paul acknowledge women speaking with the inspiration of God.
   
   1 Corinthians 11:5
   5 And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her headit is just as though her head were shaved.
   
   (Prophesizing is speaking with the inspiration of God and not necessarily predicting the future.)
   
   So, why was Paul not willing to give permission for these particular women to teach? We know from history that at Ephesus, Timothy was dealing with Gnostics. In Ephesus a man named Cerinthus was a leader of this cult. There is a great possibility that the women to whom Paul is referring were being influenced by the Gnostics.


3. Paul, however, does seem to make a distinction between teaching and leadership. When identifying the qualifications of spiritual leadership roles (elder, deacon, or overseer), Paul specified that the role be filled by a man with only one wife.
   
   In his epistle to the Ephesians, after he specified that we are to submit to one another, he specified how the husband and wife are to submit to one another. Wives are to submit to the husband as the church to Christ. Husband are to love the wife as Christ loves the church.

Concluding My "Theology of Christian Discipleship" Discussion

In my initial post, I asserted that because of predestination, we are saved before the creation.

Ephesians 1:4-5
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will

Someone asked, "Why would Paul write what he said to the Roman church in Romans 10:9-10? ... If they were already saved, Paul wouldn't have had to tell them to confess or believe.

My response was:

It's a matter of perspectives. Yes, the requirement is that one has to believe and confess in order to be saved. You get no argument from me on that. However, if God predestined the elect, an unilateral covenant, he would fulfill it (as good as done). Just like Abraham was saved before Jesus died on the cross.

To close this topic, someone posted the following:

While a cat is not saved until
the fireman climbs up and sets him free,
I have never seen a cat skeleton
in the branches of a tree.

A Response to My "The Woman at the Well: Scorned Sinner or Holy Woman?"

I received the following in response to "The woman at the well: scorned sinner or holy woman?"

Remember brother that she was a Samaritan, the Samaritans no longer followed the Law because they had integrated idolatry into Judaism. this was the reason the Jews would walk around Samaria rather than risk any contact with a Samaritan. the woman was an adulterer, but she did not know the truth. she was waiting for the Messiah because He would teach her the truth. Jesus had compassion on her because she didn't pretend to know the truth, she was honest, and she desperately needed/wanted the truth. she went to the well at noon time in order to avoid the scorn from the other Samaritan women, none of them would go to get water in the heat of noon. she was a sinner even by Samaritan standards, yet He used her to reach the whole town. God reveals Himself to those who desperately need His healing touch, and then because of their testimony countless others are saved. if you look at the background of many powerful preachers today, you wont see a born man of God, you will see a retch who has been healed.

God bless you and your heart to know the Word :)

in His grip, sp.

He made two points.

1. She was a sinner, thus not holy.


2. She would not have been stoned for adultery since Samaritans do not obey Jewish laws

To the first point, I agree that she is indeed a sinner; however, no more than any Jew is a sinner nor any more than any of us is a sinner.

The Gospel of John never accuses this poor woman of any sin except that she lives with a man who is not her husband. And I have accounted for that in my previous post. I have also accounted for the scorn of the other women in my previous post.

Does her being a sinner mean that she is not holy? That's sort of a trick question.

If I were using the word "holy" to mean sacred, then I would agree that she can not be holy if she is a sinner.

However, I was using the second definition of the word "holy": "set apart". Thus, she can be a sinner and also be set apart by the Lord for a special purpose.

To the second point, I disagree.

First a historical background:

When the Assyrian Empire conquered ancient Israel, it deported the upper classes of the Israelites to Assyria, replacing them with settlers from other parts of the Assyrian Empire. The lower classes and the settlers intermarried and merged into one community, the Samaritans. They practice Samaritanism which is a religion based on the Torah. (See 2 Kings 17). Because God sent lions among them to kill them, the king of the Assyrians sent one of the priests from Bethel to teach the new settlers about God's ordinances. Currently there are about 700 Samaritans living in Israel and in the West Bank.

Now my response to the second point:

When the exiled Jews returned they had to make a choice to either recognize the Samaritans as Jews or not. There was a bit of economic-social-political wrangling. The result is that the returning Jewish exiles decided not to recognize them. The reason that was given is that the Samaritans do not practice pure Judaism because they sometimes refer to the native gods of the imported people groups. (While I am not going to call this assertion a lie, because I'm sure the accusation must have been based on some shred of truth, I do believe that this aspect of the Samaritans was overblown.) The Samaritans, on the other hand, claim that their worship is the true religion of the ancient Israelites, predating the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, but that claim has historically been rejected by normative Judaism. Thus, started the rift between the two groups. Over the years, the divide became so great that the two groups literally hated each other.

The Samaritans do believe that there is only one God, the same God recognized by the Hebrew prophets. Their view of God is the same as the Jewish biblical view of God. They believe that the Torah (their version) was dictated by God to Moses.

The two religions are essentially the same.

Their main Torah text differs slightly from the Jewish text (Masoretic Text). Some differences are doctrinal: for example, their Torah explicitly mentions that "the place that God chose to establish His name" is Mount Gerizim. Other differences seem more or less accidental.

The form of the letters in the manuscript copies of the Samaritan Pentateuch, called the Samaritan alphabet, is different from that of the Hebrew copies, and is probably the same as that which was in general use before the Babylonian captivity. There are other peculiarities in the writing.

There are differences between the Hebrew and the Samaritan copies of the Pentateuch in the readings of many sentences. In about two thousand instances in which the Samaritan and the Jewish texts (Masoretic text) differ, the Septuagint (LXX) agrees with the Samaritan. For example, Exodus 12:40 in the Samaritan and the LXX reads, "Now the sojourning of the children of Israel and of their fathers which they had dwelt in the land of Canaan and in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years." In the Masoretic text, however, the same passage reads, "Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years." The New Testament, when quoting from the Old Testament, agrees as a rule with the Samaritan text, where that differs from the Jewish text (Masoretic text).

The Samaritan version of the Ten Commandments commands to build the altar on Mt. Gerizim, which would be the site at which all sacrifices should be offered.

Although the Samaritans adhere to the Torah (the first five books of the bible), they reject the Halakha (Rabbinical Jewish law).

However, the laws concerning the putting to death of adulterers is found in the Torah.

The woman at the well: scorned sinner or holy woman?

As a single person, I'm constantly asked why I'm single. More often than not, I'm asked it when I attend a new Christian fellowship (new for me that is). What a ridiculous thing to ask! Do what kind of answer do they expect? "Yes, I'm a wanker that women wouldn't want to wed!" Hmm... It wouldn't be appropriate in mix company much less a Christian fellowship.

Anyway, I finally came up with a more appropriate answer. It involves the story of Jesus' encounter with the woman an the well.

John 4:17-18
17 "I have no husband," she replied.
Jesus said to her, You are right when you say you have no husband.
18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true."

I have seen many commentaries jump on these verses and immediately pronounce that this woman is an adulteress. Their reasoning:

1. All five of her husbands divorced her.


2. The man, with whom she is living, is not her husband.


3. She was probably scorned by the town since she had to get water from the well at high noon.

Here's my defense of this poor woman:

I don't believe that these men divorced her because she committed adultery. Do you remember what they do to adulterer at that time. Remember when they brought the adulterer to Jesus and asked him what they should do with her. That's right, they would stone adulterer. Jesus had to answer, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I can understand that she might get away with it once if her first husband quietly divorced her. However, I'm doubtful that she would be able to get away with it four more times.

Is she intimate with the person she is currently living with? There is a high probability that she may be. However, in those days, unlike our own, women are dependent on men for protection and for provision. With out a husband, she is forced to seek the protection of a man who is not her husband. But does that make her an adulterer? I think we can safely say that they have a common law marriage relationship.

I do agree that she was scorn by the town, but why? More particularly, why did her husbands divorced her?

If you've ever been anywhere in the middle east, you would see one commonality among married women. Wherever they go, their children are there.

This woman did not have a single child with her when she went to fetch the water. Let's assume that someone else is watching her children. She's a scorned woman; who would watch her children? You may be thinking, what about a relatives; if she has relatives, would she have been forced to live with a man who is not her husband? I'm not saying it's impossible but I am saying it's highly unlikely.

I believe that this woman was divorced and scorned because she was barren.

This poor woman, who couldn't have a child, was passed from man to man until the last guy wasn't even willing to giver her his name.

Unfortunately, at that time, children were considered blessings from God. So if you have neither children nor wealth, the town would consider you as someone from whom God had withheld His blessings. If so, they can accuse her of doing something displeasing to God causing God to withhold his blessings.

The obvious question would be: Why did God withhold children from this woman.

The answer: So that she would be there at the well when Jesus arrives and she can lead the town to Christ.

This woman was made holy (set apart) for this purpose.

Why am I single? Because I was made holy (set apart) for God's purpose.

If your walk with Christ is a trip from one end of the country to the other...

I used to lead Christian discipleship groups. Usually, when the group is first formed, I would ask everyone to assess how they are doing spiritually. I would try to do it in a fun way. One fun way is when I would ask everyone the following:

If your walk with Christ is a trip from one end of the country to the other, what kind of transportation would best describe how you are currently moving and where would you be (geographically) right now? Why did you choose that form of transportation and why did you choose that geographic location to describe how you are doing spiritually.

I would get a lot of very fun but very poignant answers and everyone has a lot of fun, not only coming up with his/her answers but also hearing others.

Yesterday, I started a discussion thread asking that question. And, to be fair, I posted my answer first.

Here is my answer:

I'm a tractor trailer rig currently refueling at the Iowa 80 truck stop.

Why a tractor trailer rig?

Because I've been carrying a heavy load for a while.

My dad had a stroke that left him an invalid. My brother developed chemical imbalance illnesses: hypothyroid, diabetes, and a plethora of others. Through all this, I continued to fulfill my ministry responsibilities while working full time at my day job. Then, my dad had a heart attack and passed away, after which my mom had a stroke that left her an invalid. Then my cat, Amelia, developed kidney disease, high blood pressure, a heart murmur, and degenerative joint disease all of which require special daily attention.

Why at the Iowa 80?

Because it is in the middle of the country and it is the world largest truck stop.

Although I've come a long way in my walk with the Lord, I know that I've still got a long way to go.

I've completed my ministry responsibilities and about the same time paid off my house which allowed me to work three days a week at my day job, a thoroughly needed break. Last week, the Lord finally allowed my cat to rest in peace.

Although I've been running on empty, the Lord is currently refueling me.

All this came just in time because I think I would break if I wasn't given the respite.

Praise God that he gives me all that I need when I need them.

Mathew 6:31-
31 So do not worry, saying, "What shall we eat?" or "What shall we drink?" or "What shall we wear?"
32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them
33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

The Mechanics of the Co-Existence of Free Will and Predestination

As I had mentioned before I believe that there is both free will and predestination. Most, of the responses, question how both can be possible and how a just God could pick one person to be saved while allowing another to perish when all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Because the number of responses expressing these two concerns are so overwhelming that I am forced to address them.

To answer both concerns, we would have to examine the mechanics of God's predestination and how it interacts with our free will. I broke it down in the the following three principles.

1. Although God commands us to repent and receive Christ, it does not necessary mean that we are capable to do so in our fallen state. Calvin's argument is that without God's intervention, we do not have the ability to see the choices. Without the ability to see the choices, one can not exercise free will.
   
   The power of sin is like when a strung out junkie needs a fix. He needs to be brought down to a state in which the interventionist can converse rationally with him before the junkie can see that there are choices available to him. It is at that point in which he can choose rehab or to go back on drugs. While in the strung out state, he is unable to exercise free will.
   
   Thus, without God's intervention via the Holy Spirit, we, in our fallen state, do not have free will.


2. When God intervenes to save the sinner, He does not overpower the sinner and force the sinner to submit unwillingly nor does he eliminate the sinner's choices. All of the sinner's choices are still there. The difference is that the Holy Spirit would demonstrate how much better is the choice, of salvation through Jesus Christ, than any of the other choices.
   
   It's like if you've been eating two week old stale bread for all you life and is presented with freshly baked cheese Danish rolls topped with strawberry jam. Would you have to be forced to take the cheese Danish rolls?
   
   Calvin argues that even if the sinner initially refuses, God would continue to entice the sinner until the sinner finds it desirable enough the accept.


3. Why would God entice some sinners into the Kingdom and allow others to perish? Contrary to popular belief, there are things that God is incapable of doing! (I can hear the gasps.) That's true. God can not do anything that is counter to His good and perfect character. Here are some examples:
   
   
   • God can not do evil.
   
   
   • God can not love evil.
   
   
   • God can not contradict Himself.
   
   
   • God can not break any of his promises.
   
   There are more, of course; but you get the idea.
   
   Since we know that God does not desire for anyone to perish, we can conclude that the only ones, that God would allow to perish, are those whom He is incapable of saving. Since the only things, that God is incapable of doing, are those which would violate his character, we can conclude that in order for God to entice the sinner, that is not predestined, into accepting Christ, God would have to do things that would require God to violate his character.

Theology of Christian Discipleship Discussion Continues

The discussion of predestination so far, however, has barely skimmed the surface of my initial post.

If I had intended to post to just stimulate an intellectual discussion, then I might as well not post it in the first place. We would be like the theologians in the Middle Ages who spent countless hours discussing "How many angels can stand on the point of a pin?" (No, it's not "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?")

However, if you had been holding fast to belief that there is only free will without predestination prior to now, then the introduction of the simultaneous free will and predestination concept should cause a paradigm shift in your view of how to pursue Christian discipleship and Christian ministry.

For instance, without predestination, evangelism would be done with a shotgun approach. Spread your resources to maximize coverage. After all, you don't want to let anyone fall between the cracks.

Predestination, however, would require that you spend a lot of time listening to the Lord and following the leading of the Holy Spirit. After all, only God knows whom he had predestined and what he wants you to do in His plan.

Your view of what is "good works" and what is "dead works" would also shift.

Without predestination, the criteria for being "good work" and "dead work" would be based on what is in your heart. Are you motivated to do it because you want to please God or are you motivated to do it because you want to earn God's approval or to earn anything else from God.

While I agree that if you are doing something to earn God's approval or to earn anything else from God, you are doing "dead work", it is not a precise definition if you introduce predestination into the paradigm.

With predestination, everything that does not forward God's plan is done in vain and is therefore dead work irregardless of your motives.

Are you starting to see the divergence on how you approach discipleship and ministry with the two paradigms?